Navien NPE Condensing Tankless Innovation

Condensing heat exchanger

Condensing tankless technology uses the normally wasted exhaust gases to preheat incoming water.

This has been on every one of Navien’s tankless water heaters since the beginning. The addition of the secondary heat exchanger adds about a 12-15 percent efficiency increase making a tankless water heater around 97-98 percent efficient.

With one of these systems for every dollar you send on natural gas or propane 97-98 cents are actually used to heat your water. A conventional type water heater is somewhere around 50 percent efficient so literally half of every dollar you spend on fuel is thrown away.navien heat exchanger cut out

The Navien NPE series systems have an innovative twist to their condensing tankless. The burner and heat exchanger are flipped upside down and thus, when the burner kicks on flames shoot downward. This is completely opposite to most other condensing tankless manufacture designs who have designed their systems with flames that shoot upwards. Yes, it is actually counter intuitive as heat rises upwards so you would think naturally the burner should be at the bottom.

I spent some time with a Navien representative and he thoroughly explained this (brilliant) engineering difference which I’ll try to explain it to you (hopefully as elegant as he was able to do).

A condensing tankless has a substantial amount of water form on the outside of secondary heat exchanger where the exhaust gases are flowing past, this of course is what makes it a condensing tankless. With the presence of the exhaust the water is naturally acidic and will eat away at the heat exchanger over time. Navien having put the burner at the top with the secondary heat exchanger at the bottom prevents the condensate from dripping over the primary heat exchanger enhancing its lifespan.

This design has been tested thoroughly by Navien and they offer the industries best heat exchanger warranty at 15 years. The best warranty you will find on a heat exchanger with other tankless systems is 12 years.

We sell and service all makes and models of Navien condensing tankless water heaters. This is a brand we trust and a system that is personally owned by several of our staff. If you think a Navien might be right for your home give us a call to discuss.

 


Call Us Anytime (647) 925 1930


Best Tankless Systems for Ontario

Best tankless systems for Ontario homes

It used to be easy for Ontario home owners to select their whole home tankless water heater as only 2 maybe 3 systems would be sufficient.  Today things have changed and there are numerous tankless water heaters as well as conventional tank type water heaters that are not only super highly efficient but also offer an endless supply of hot water.

We are going to try and give you an overview of the best tankless systems available today.

 

System Condensing Efficiency Max Flow Min Flow Warranty Price
RINNAI TANKLESS SYSTEMS
RU98i YES 96% 9.8/GPM 4.9/GPM 12 Years Quote
RU80i YES 96% 8.0/GPM 4.4/GPM 12 Years Quote
RL94i NO 82% 9.8/GPM 4.2/GPM 12 Years Quote
RL75i NO 82% 8.0/GPM 3.8/GPM 12 Years Quote
RHEEM TANKLESS SYSTEMS
RTGH-95 YES 94% 9.5/GPM 4.9/GPM 12 Years Quote
RTGH-84 YES 94% 8.4/GPM 3.9/GPM 12 Years Quote
RTG-95 NO 82% 9.5/GPM 4.3/GPM 12 Years Quote
RTG-84 NO 82% 8.4/GPM 3.9/GPM 12 Years Quote
NAVIEN TANKLESS SYSTEMS
NPE s 180 YES 97% 8.4/GPM 3.8/GPM 15 Years Quote
NPE s 210 YES 97% 10.1/GPM 4.6/GPM 15 Years Quote
NPE s 240 YES 97% 11.2/GPM 5.1/GPM 15 Years Quote
NPE a 180 YES 97% 8.4/GPM 3.8/GPM 15 Years Quote
NPE a 210 YES 97% 10.1/GPM 4.6/GPM 15 Years Quote
NPE a 240 YES 97% 11.2/GPM 5.1/GPM 15 Years Quote
HTP HIGH EFFICIENCY TANK
Versa Hydro
PHE130-55 YES 96% 7.0/GPM 3.0/GPM 12 Years Quote
PHE199-55 YES 96% 7.9/GPM 4.6/GPM 12 Years Quote
PHE130-80 YES 96% 7.0/GPM 3.0/GPM 12 Years Quote
PHE199-80 YES 96% 7.9/GPM 4.6/GPM 12 Years Quote
PHE130-119 YES 96% 7.0/GPM 3.1/GPM 12 Years Quote
PHE199-119 YES 96% 7.9/GPM 4.6/GPM 12 Years Quote
Versa Flame
PHR-130-55 YES 95% 7.0/GPM 3.2/GPM 12 Years Quote
PHR-160-55 YES 95% 7.5/GPM 3.85/GPM 12 Years Quote
PHR-199-55 YES 95% 7.9/GPM 4.8/GPM 12 Years Quote
Envirosense
6G50-PDVH YES 96% 8.0/GPM 2.4/GPM 6 Years Quote
6G5076-02 YES 90% 8.0/GPM 2.3/GPM 6 Years Quote

 

Choosing The Best Tankless System

As the chart above indicates…. There are a lot of choices for home owners.  For the most part the systems listed are the best available here in Ontario.  There are numerous other brands that dealers or HVAC sales technicians might try to push on you but the one listed are tried and tested for our cold winters.

Budget will probably be the biggest factor in determining which will be the best tankless system for your home.  Give us a call and we can give you some rough prices over the phone and can offer exact tankless prices with a free installation inspection (we have to see the gas lines, venting run, venting termination, etc before we can be certain any tankless can be installed).

Book Your Inspection Today – (647) 925 1930

Radiant Floor Heating with a Tankless

tankless radiant floors

We are receiving an ever increasing number in inquiries regarding the installation of tankless water heaters and radiant floor heating.  There are a number of reasons why and we hope to fully explain them below.

Conventionally radiant floor heating was done with a boiler which is large and very expensive.  Today’s technology has brought us tankless water heaters which are small enough to hang on the wall yet more powerful than ever.

Benefits of using a Tankless for Radiant Floor Heating

  • A Tankless is cheaper to buy
  • Space saving size
  • Powerful enough to provide heating as well as domestic hot water needs
  • Built in circulation pump
  • A single system can heat homes up to 3000sq feet
  • High efficiency systems (98%)

Why is radiant floor heating so nice?

Having your floors heated provides a completely different feel and comfort level within your home.  Have you ever unknowingly walked by something hot and felt that faint sensation of heat but not know where it’s coming from.  Well radiant floors are similar in a sense, and heat is released evenly throughout your home.

Radiant floor heating is much more efficient than forced air.  The floor has a much greater thermal mass and thus releases the heat slowly and evenly when heated radiantly.  A forced air furnace indirectly tries to heat your home by heating the air.  This hot air rises and in fact works to heat your roof.

Installation

Radiant floors can now be installed under tiles, hardwood, and even laminate.  The tubing is pre-made and carries a long guarantee (depends on brand).   Let us come out and give you a free quote to install radiant floor heating in your home.

 


Call Us (647) 925-1930


 

Home Heating With A Tankless

home heating tankless

We have a roughly 2000 sq foot home just North of Toronto.  Our combined average costs for heat and hot water are only $20 per month, a figure we credit to tight construction, increased insulation, programmable thermostats, and the efficiency of our Rinnai tankless water heater.

Yes, most radiant systems get their hot water from either a normal water heater or a boiler, our homes hot water and heat are both provided by a high efficiency Rinnai  — or “on demand” — tankless.  The Rinnai RU98i uses considerably less energy than a tank-type heater and costs less to install than a boiler with a heat exchanger.

Heating With A Tankless

Tankless water heaters are a proven technology with a long track record for heating domestic hot water in Southern Ontario.  Unfortunately few contractors in our area  have experience using them for radiant or home heating with a tankless, and thus information about reliable system design can be hard to find.

We consider our home system more than worthwhile: During the three years we have had the system, heat and hot-water costs for two people have averaged around $20 per month.

It’s important to note that we have added additional insulation (R-35 walls, R-50 to R-60 in the roof) and our large windows help us take advantage of excellent solar thermal energy. When the sun is out, which it often is here, we barely need any heat at all during the day.  On occasion we also supplement our homes heating with a wood stove, which we enjoy for both comfort and ambience.

Finally, we use a programmable thermostat that limits the temperature to 62°F in the middle of the day and at night, and 70°F from 6 to 8 a.m. and 6 to 10 p.m.

Why Tankless?

Tankless water heaters take up very little space, are extremely efficient, and offer endless hot water.

Despite the fact that the units are not commonly used for home heating, they’re an ideal heat source for this application because their output temperatures can be easily matched to the needs of the radiant or hydronic system. With a heating controller the Rinnai tankless can provide water of up to 180°F, which is more than sufficient for the 110°F to 120°F needed to run radiant system.

The economics of using a tankless water heater to supply both hot water and home heating are also quite attractive. Total cost for a system like this is around $5,000, this includes a tankless, labour, the PEX tubing, and various components, controls, and fittings.

You can use a tank-type water heater for a little less cash upfront but the extra cost of the tankless model will more than offset extra cost with its energy savings. Energy efficiency of a heating appliance is expressed as a decimal called its energy factor, or EF.  A tankless water heater has an EF between .82 and .97, which means it converts 82 percent to 97 percent of its energy input to heat.  Conventional tank type units have an EF around .59, so a good 40% of money you spend on heating is simple pumped out the exhaust pipe.

 

Condensing Verses Non-Condensing Tankless Water Heaters

Condesning tankless

As tankless water heaters become more and more popular the number of manufactures and models are increasing.  A tankless is also referred to as an on demand water heater and as you would expect there is no storage tank on these systems.  Using a more powerful burner a tankless can heat water instantly removing the need for the storage tank.  Although it uses more fuel while heating water it uses absolutely zero any other time, this results in an average of 40% fuel savings over a conventional tank that always keeps your water hot.

On the newer side of things are the condensing tankless water heaters available to home owners now.  These units use two heat exchangers.  The first is primarily used to heat water to your desired temperature.  The second is smaller and located near the top of the unit where the exhaust gases are used to preheat the incoming water.  Using this normally wasted heat in the exhaust bumps up the efficiency of a condensing tankless to 95% or better.

A conventional tankless doesn’t take advantage a second heat exchanger and thus the exhaust gases are much hotter and actually require special venting materials.  This can sometimes add to the cost of installing a tankless.  Whereas your condensing tankless utilizing that second heat exchanger significantly reduces exhaust temperatures, this allows contractors to use less expensive venting materials.


In general for Canadians a condensing tankless works a little better. Preheating the incoming water (which is cold during our winters) allows the tankless to throttle down its gas usage when only a little hot water is needed. Yet, when a high demand appliance requests a lot of hot water the tankless has more than enough power to supply the request. See the recommended Canadian tankless installers and tankless systems.


A condensing tankless cools the normally hot exhaust so much that moisture actually builds up inside the heat exchanger.  Moisture and steam are by-products of combustion and this is a very normal result.  As water clings to the side of the heat exchanger it builds up until it starts to drip down, this water is acidic due to combustion; the water has a pH between 3 and 5.  Rheem has a buffer tank built into its tankless systems to neutralize the condensate.  Rinnai has an external system that buffers this excess water.  Other manufactures have different systems, if you’re interested in any particular one give us a call.

 

To Conclude condensing tankless water heaters are incredibly efficient (up to 98%), and use inexpensive venting material saving on installation costs.  A condensing unit is more expensive to purchase but prices start to even out when purchasing exhaust materials for a regular tankless.  The choice is yours with regards to which system you feel best fits the needs of your home.

If you have any further question don’t hesitate to ask us

Rinnai Changes Ultra Series Tankless

Ultra Series Tankless

Rinnai has changed the Ultra series tankless water heaters to better reflect the designation with the model number.

Basically the tankless has remained the same internally and the name has just changed.

RC98i has been changed to RU98i

Rc80i has changed to RU80i

Personally I think they did this to better differentiate their models of tankless water heaters.  Rinnai has a bit of an alternative way to categorizing their systems and it goes as such:

  1. Value Series
  2. Luxury Series
  3. Ultra Series

The Value Series, as Rinnai calls it, are rarely if ever sold in Toronto, the GTA, or Southern Ontario for that matter.  Our water is just a bit too cold in the winter to be able to install these units and expect reliability.  They could work great for cottage or seasonal use though.

The Luxury Series is where we start to get into tankless systems suitable for Ontario home owners.  The RL94i and the RL75i being the two systems.

The Ultra Series tankless systems suitable for the Greater Toronto Area consist of the RU98i and RU80i.

Rinnai Model Code Breakdown.

I’m not 100% certain on this but as far as I know this is how Rinnai model name is broken down. Using the new RU80i as an example.

RU80i

R = Rinnai

U = Ultra (for the ultra series which consists of only condensing tankless systems)

80 = This indicated max hot water output at a certain temperature rise (8.0 gallons)

i = Signals that this is an indoor model (e specifies that a Rinnai tankless is outdoor)

Here is another example

Rl75i

R = Rinnai

L = Luxury (for the Luxury series which consists of only non-condensing tankless systems)

75 = This indicated max hot water output at a certain temperature rise (7.5 gallons)

i = Signals that this is an indoor model (e specifies that a Rinnai tankless is outdoor)

 

If you have any further questions don’t hesitate to call us or fill out our online form.  Our aim is to get back to you in less than one business day.

 

 

Tank VS Tankless – Misconceptions

Tankless Toronto

There are a lot of misconceptions regarding tank type water heaters and tankless systems.  As a homeowner, if you’re thinking of adding a tankless to your home take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt.  Everyone seems to be some sort of expert on water heaters and can tell you which system is better when in reality you yourself needs to make the decision.  A tankless has been installed tens of thousands of homes throughout the greater Toronto area with positive reviews.

In some situations as tankless is not the right choice, you need to trust your water heater installer to shoot you straight.  The hard part is finding reputable tankless installers that are willing to tell you the whole truth and not just force the sale through.  I can tell you without hesitation that we and all employees put the homeowners interest first.  Operating on this simple principle ensures that the homeowner remains a customer and we remain in business. Simple as that.

Now back to the tankless misconceptions published throughout the internet.  A recent article regarding the pros and cons was published on thesop.org by a writing that appears to have just taken some common thoughts regarding the system and published them as if completely true.

Below is our response to the author regarding his article.

Hello John,

I read your article on thesop.org and wanted to correct you on a few things regarding tank vs tankless water heaters.

You said – Tankless water heaters are about 10 to 20% more energy efficient than traditional tank water heaters.

Tankless range from 82% to 98% efficiency, an expensive conventional tank brand new is lucky to be 60% so 20-30 percent is more accurate.

You said – Tankless water heaters work best when only one water tap is using hot water.

That’s not accurate at all, a tankless can easily run 3 showers and a dishwasher simultaneously (or some similar combination).

You said – If water taps are far apart from each other, it is recommended to buy another tankless water heater.

How does that even make sense? A tankless is designed to produce enough hot water for your whole home and is usually installed very close to where the old tank was installed, thus the hot water has the exact same distance to travel.

You said – Water does not instantly heat up when using a tankless water heater, but does with a tank heater.

This is backwards, it does heat up instantly, tankless are sometimes referred to as insta-hot water heaters.

You said – Tankless water heaters require yearly maintenance in order to remain efficient.

This is correct but not a bad thing as you stated… any and all water heaters see a 2% reduction in efficiency every year due to scale and lime build up.  A tankless is designed to have the scale removed or flushed out of the system so that it maintains its very high efficiency rating.  A conventional tank has no flush or maintenance thus the scale builds up year after year.   Think of the efficiency these two water heating systems are operating at 10 years down the road.

You’re a university student,  I know you can do better than this.   Let me know if you’re interested in re-writing, correcting, or doing another article on the subject. I would be more than happy to answer any questions or provide any help needed to accurately portray the pros and cons of tankless systems.

Read the original article here

Tankless Concerns

Here is an interesting post that I spotted on RedFlagDeals – that’s a popular Canadian site offering deals and helpful info to people. I recommend you check it out if you’re interested.  Anyways this user had some questions regarding tankless water heaters and was looking for responses from current owners.  Here is their inquiry.

I’ll be moving into a brand new town-home in downtown Toronto next year, and we need to decide on which option to go for the water heater:

  1. Rent the tank system from Direct Energy (installed by builder…)
  2. Buy a tank system and replace the rental
  3. Rent a tankless system
  4. Buy a tankless system

Our priorities are, in order of most important first:

  1. Space
  2. Hot Temperature
  3. Continuous hot water
  4. Noise
  5. Multiple appliances
  6. Up-front costs
  7. Operating & Maintenance costs

I know the tankless system wins for 1 and 3… but what about 2, 4, and 5? After reading through this thread, I only read a few things about the noise issue. We want to mount this on a wall to save space and use that area as storage, but if it’s going to rattle our small townhome’s walls, that’s a serious concern.

Thoughts?

Here Is Our Take

Right off the bat I would instantly recommend a tankless if your number one concern is space.  A tankless wins hands down.  I will go though the issues this user brought up briefly.

  1. Space – tankless saves a lot, it wins.
  2. Temperature – Toss up, but I would probably give it to the tankless because of its precision
  3. Continuous supply – obviously the tankless takes this category
  4.  Noise – depends on which type of conventional tank you could install, but I call it a draw – both would probably be power vented units so the blower makes the most noise.
  5. Tank wins but only for a short period as it will run out of water as more appliances demand hot water.
  6. Tank is cheaper for sure – a tankless does have much higher upfront costs.
  7. Tank – a tank will be cheaper on maintenance as there really isn’t any, but that tank has a lifespan of 8 years where as the tankless is 20.  Yep you will pay a little more on maintenance but it more than makes up for it over time.

Free Quotes on Tankless Water Heaters

Endless Supply Of Hot Water

A tankless water heater creates hot water as you use it, thus the system will never run out. Some tankless units are made to supply one shower at a time, these lower BTU systems are ideal for cottage use here in Ontario. For residential or commercial units we recommend that a tankless have a bare minimum BTU of 150,000 in Toronto and areas.


Tankless Energy Savings

Most older conventional type tanks have an efficiency rating well below 60 percent. According to a recent study by the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Commission, tankless water heaters reduce energy costs by an average of 46%. This increase in energy savings can be up to $150 per year.

In addition to increased efficiency tankless water heaters also have much longer life spans than hot water tanks. Your conventional 40 or 50 gallon tank likely has an 8 year warranty and has a steel tank (not stainless steel) which will rust through in about 12 years.  Tankless systems are made with copper or stainless steel and can last for 20 years or more.

How much do tankless water heaters cost?

Smaller tankless units with an efficiency of between 80 and 85 percent cost about $2000 to $2750 installed, depending on brand and your homes venting requirements.   A larger model with an efficiency of between 94 and 98 percent usually cost about $3000-$4500, again this is highly dependent on your home and the model you choose.


GoTankless: We are your top choice for water heater installations in Toronto and surrounding areas.

Installing a tankless water is a much more complex process than installing a conventional hot water tank, it is important that your installers have the necessary expertise.

Call (647) 925-1930

for more information or to schedule a quote on a tankless water heater installation. Or fill out our online request quote form.

Prevent Deadly Diseases

Prevent Deadly Water Heater Diseases

Legionnaires’ Disease can be fatal and the standing hot water in a conventional water tank creates an ideal environment for it to thrive and reproduce. A tankless water heater has no standing water eliminating the threat posed by the deadly disease. Don’t take chances with your family’s health, install a tankless system and ensure they’re safe.

If you read a checklist of energy-saving tips its very likely to includes a recommendation to turn the temperature of your water heater down from 140°F (60°C) to 120°F(49°C), including these popular websites — TreeHugger and Planet Green — Yet when seeking an opinion from industry professionals they will tell you never to set your heater below 140F, as it can become a sort of petri dish for Legionnaires Disease.

Legionella pneumophila (Legionnaires Disease) is an aquatic organism that thrives in warm environments. The disease was first identified in Philadelphia in 1976 after 34 veterans died attending an American Legion Convention.

The important thing to know is that the bacteria that causes Legionnaires Disease are very temperature sensitive.

  • 70 to 80 °C (158 to 176 °F): Disinfection range
  • At 66 °C (151 °F): Legionellae die within 2 minutes
  • At 60 °C (140 °F): Legionellae die within 32 minutes
  • At 55 °C (131 °F): Legionellae die within 5 to 6 hours
  • Above 50 °C (122 °F): They can survive but do not multiply
  • 35 to 46 °C (95 to 115 °F): Ideal growth range
  • 20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F): Legionellae growth range
  • Below 20 °C (68 °F): Legionellae can survive but are dormant

Hydro Quebec has found that even at 60 °C – the setting on most electric water heaters – an estimated 25% of all water heaters are contaminated by legionella bacteria in Canada.  This is a staggering statistic. But why are more people not contracting the disease?  Well it can simply be left to chance, the bacteria most often enter the lungs due to aspiration (aspiration means choking such that secretions in the mouth bypass the choking reflexes and enter the lung) and thus drinking contaminated water is not a major cause of Legionnaire’s disease.

A conventional tank draws hot water from the top and adds cold water to the bottom providing a continuous reservoir for this disease.  When cold water is injected it lowers the temperature making it idea for the bacteria to multiply.  A tankless is a different system all together, tankless water heaters have no standing water and this no place for the bacteria to take refuge.  In addition a tankless system completely flushes itself every time the hot water is used in your house maintaining a clean bacteria free environment.

Legionnaires Disease can be deadly and affects both children and elderly more so than others, a tankless water heater is a great solution for this problem. If your at all interested in seeing if a tankless is right for your home give us a call or fill out the form on the side and we will get back to you.